We are meeting Monika Michalko and Christian ‘Henk’ Henkel for a cup of tea on a sunny afternoon in Monika's kitchen. Michalko studied painting in Hamburg under Norbert Schwontkowski, and Henkel is a sculptor who graduated from Monika Brandmeiers class in Dresden. They have known each other for a long time and feel connected through friendship and a shared appreciation for each other's art.

Warm colors, textured fabrics and cozyness are welcoming and reminding us of Monika's paintings. Paintings that invite us into her poetic, surrealist, and utopian spaces. Spaces that contrast Christians inorganic forms and sculptural practice.

SMAC: You two are exhibiting together and you’re not calling it a comparison of two corresponding positions but rather a collaboration. What do you mean by that?

Christian Henkel: It’s always both. We are standing together. I enjoy working with others and have done so in the past. And I’ve been a fan of Monika’s art for a long time. So everything just kind of came together for this exhibition. From the first moment we talked about it, we decided: “Come on, let’s just do this together!”

 Monika Michalko: I share Christians sentiment and love to collaborate with others. I view it as an experiment. Something that doesn’t always work out. It’s never a given that something will have a successful outcome. I think Christian’s art is cool, but we’re also very different. So the question was, what happens if you combine the two of us, have us paint over each other. From the start we were set on not having a distinct physical divide in the exhibition.

That means you are showing your joint works together?

CH: Exactly. We both went through the studio “auf Halde '' and had a look at what could be interesting for a collaboration. Then we exchanged paintings, which went on for over a month. One was here, the other one there and in between we finished some.

Was there a feeling of constraint when it came to painting over each others paintings? Especially since there’s a shared appreciation for each other's art.

CH: Not at all. It’s more fun that way. On a blank canvas there’s always this anticipation for the first brush stroke. So for me it was much easier to have something to play with when there’s already color, motives and other things. That triggers me instantly. And since I was free to work on it as I saw fit, I could tell instantly that Moni was open to that.

MM: Exactly. When Henk tells me I can paint over his paintings, I feel no constraint. When I paint, I’m always reacting to what I’m doing. I don’t have a concept, it’s a very intuitive process for me. At the beginning it was a strange experience to react to something I didn’t create, but the ping pong that ensued was exciting.

CH: Sometimes you get stuck with your own work and have to try and find a solution. So working with someone else's art felt strange but at the same time easier.

That’s your first collaborative project. Who decides when a piece of work is completed?

CH zu MM: That was you. Although for one piece I made the decision. And this collaborative working is always easier because you are not alone. You don’t have to decide on your own that oh, this is now a perfect piece of art. But rather I can just say: “Oh look, the bad ones are all Moni’s.”(Both are laughing) You only have to take on half of the responsibility and can always use the collaborative aspect as an excuse.

That sounds like you’re trying to keep your options open?

CH: No, it’s just something else. It’s always a kind of entertainment for yourself. I’m starting to get curious about myself.

Christian, you studied under Monika Brandmeier in Dresden. And you, Monika, studied under Norbert Schwontkowski in Hamburg. How did you meet?

CH: Christian Hellmich invited us to an exhibition in Lichtenberg. We’ve met each other in passing before but were officially introduced at the exhibition.

And you Monika, you have been in Hamburg a long time? 

MM: Exactly. I studied there, lived there for a couple of years.Then I roamed around for a few years and eventually ended up here.

Christian, you taught as guest professor in Dresden. Your students were lucky, since your own art isn’t confined to one medium. If you had to choose, do you see yourself more as a painter or sculptor?

CH: I don't have to see myself as one or the other. There was a time when I asked myself: What am I? But I’m just doing whatever I feel like. So I mostly end up painting on random objects and sculptures. I don’t have to decide. The past two years I mainly painted and did less sculpting. And now I’m working on objects. The perfect thing for our exhibition. And after that, something else will come along.

So you wouldn't be able to decide on just one thing?

CH:

Even though my current output is coming from a past mind set and there’s already new ideas floating around in my head. There are things I’m interested in doing but I’m not sure if it’s the right moment yet.

Do you have trouble completing projects which you are currently working on when you’re already thinking about the next ones?

CH: No.

How is it for you Monika, do you tend to work on projects simultaneously?

MM: I’m working on several paintings simultaneously. When I’m painting with oil colors it depends on the drying period and sometimes I get stuck with one piece and move on to another. Apart from that I’m also working with other media, but I have separate work phases for that.

CH: After the final stroke.

MM: Or after that. I think that’s a difficult question to answer. You just know.

CH zu MM: Are there paintings where you thought they were finished but two years later you feel the urge to revisit them?

MM: Yes, that’s what I’m doing right now. Usually I just paint over them. In a way where you can only catch a glimpse or can’t really tell what the original painting was. But now I’m working on a painting that I kind of like and so I decided to add a new element to it.

CH: No, I feel like I’m in a tunnel when I’m working on something. You could call that focused, but I think it’s more a kind of restriction. And when I’m done and some time has passed, you can look at your own work in a more neutral and objective way. That’s when I’m asking myself: You seriously showed that?

MM: It’s the same for me. I tend to paint over old paintings. There's only a few of which I’m sure I will always like. But usually I’m very critical of myself and every few years I decide this or that needs to go. No one wanted it and I’m not going to show it again.

Can we have a look at your paintings?

We get up and walk through the last sunbeams in Monika’s studio, which directly borders on her kitchen and is filled with a bluish light. Canvases are leaning against the wall, it smells like oil paints. 

Where is your visual cosmos originating from?

MM: From my fantasies and from the world that surrounds me. I feel closest to the surrealists and work associatively.

We can find a lot of body fragments in your work, but also faces. You say those are mostly fictional, not associated with anyone in real life. How do fictional portraits work for you, can you try to explain that?

MM: I’m just trying to combine eyes, mouth and nose and it kind of forms something on its own. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn’t.

How did you come up with the title for the exhibition? The Ghost and the Cop?

MM: Originally I wanted the title to be The Corpse and the Moon, but I misspoke and said The Corpse and the Ghost and Christian heard „the Cops“.

CH: Bold.

It’s very bold. And political.

MM: Political?

I instantly thought of ACAB. But when we’re looking at your paintings, they’re filled with warmth and poetic fragility and I was wondering: Where’s the Cop?

CH: We both had an issue with meaning. We were trying to avoid meaning. When I think of Ghosts and Cops I have a visual association, but I don’t think of it in a conceptual way.

MM: I consider myself a political person, all of these things interest me. I listen to the radio, take it all in. But when it comes to art, I don’t see it as my responsibility to convey or proclaim my opinion. I think it’s important to be educated and have an opinion on matters, but I don’t have to share my opinions with the whole world.

And Speaking of, I’m currently reading about Peter Handke and his book 1972 Ich bin ein Bewohner des Elfenbeinturmes. In this book he rejects the accusation of art being a form of escapism. He puts an emphasis on the utopian character of art and how its distance to reality enables it to change said reality. I find that fascinating.

What do you think, Christian?

CH: I always wondered about that. There’s nothing political about my work and I’m not looking to find anything political in it. I don’t feel like it has to be, that’s not my responsibility. Some artists are naturally political and they’re good at it. If I had to try and come up with something politically charged it wouldn’t work. Maybe someday that will change and I will have something to say, but until then I only speak through my work.

MM:

That’s what I expect from artists and from everyone else that wanders on this earth. It’s important to me. At art school we took some radical and political action. It wasn’t just about us, but also about the generations that will come after us. Yet, all of that doesn’t have to be visualized in my paintings.

Should we head over to Christian’s studio?

We leave Monika’s studio and take a quick walk to the legendary Uferhallen compound. That’s where Christian’s studio is located. In a small, separated studio geometric sculptures are piled up and canvases and wooden panels are leaning against the walls. Palettes are laying around on the floor. It looks busy, like someone is feeling inspired here and has fun at what they’re doing.

What’s this one about? (Pointing to a fantastically jagged wooden art piece on the wall)

CH: Sometimes I can’t tell, but in this case I know exactly what this one is about: There was a crisis and I found myself laying on the couch. It was about how I’m feeling when I’m inside myself.. I was having some sort of hypnotic experience and started seeing flying shark teeth. And I already had started working on this piece. So suddenly it came to me: those are shark teeth. But I don’t have many stories like that.

The sculptures here, that’s all chipboard?

CH: It’s all kinds of things… chipboard, stuff I found, things I bought…

With some of your works, you’re even filling up screws?

CH: I leave it like that, that’s part of the style.

You work with acrylic paint?

CH: I always worked with oils and varnishes. Since I’m here I decided to do something else. I wanted to experience healthy painting. With these objects here, that’s not painting in the classic sense. There’s a big difference to working on a canvas. The outcome is different. It’s a different material and therefore a different result. When we started working together I took some of Moni’s oil paints and decided on four, five colors. And I realized I needed that. The colors mix in a different way, a dirty brush with oil is reacting differently to white, you can take on its tone. You can’t do that with acrylic paint.

That sounds like there’s a very modular character to it all, like big building blocks.

CH: That’s how it’s meant to be. The height is always the same but they differ in length. I want to add them together, move them around, see how that affects the room. And create a room. With sculptures the good thing is, you move with them. Each movement you make changes the picture.

Architecture never interested you?

CH: No, it did, very much so. My mother used to tell me I should become an architect. It’s a curse. Children never grow up to be what their parents wanted them to be.

And now? Do you regret it?

CH: No, not at all. I’m part of Kunst am Bau and just won my first contest. There’s a series of mine that’s called A Sculpture is a painting is a building, and maybe that kind of trinity is how I view myself. Architecture plays a big part in my art.

Space is also a big part of your art. In your paintings you are opening up spaces and fantastic worlds. When you’re painting spaces that are very intimate, because they are coming from an associative place inside of you, does it feel intimate to you to have people look at them?

MM: On the contrary. I enjoy showing others how I envision beautiful and comforting spaces

So there’s something utopian and positive about it?

MM: Yes, absolutely. Just as Abel wrote in the Text: The spaces are cozy, they’re inviting. You’d want to hang out in them. I was really happy about that.

CH: Hang out Spaces.

MM: Even back in the day, when I didn’t feel like accepting the concept of the White Cube, I always wanted rugs, sofas. Somewhere people would be able to hang out and have time to take in the art. No bright white lights and a space where everyone just stands around. I wanted it to be like my paintings.

That’s a big contrast to your forms, Christian. They are very minimalistic, geometric and reduced. With sharp edges, almost like a White Cube.

CH: Those are things that interest me in my own art. The interaction between Moni’s organic things and my solid forms.

MM: There are a lot of similarities when it comes to our view points. At the same time, visually our work is very different. But how that plays together is what makes it so interesting.

Yes, your way of expression is different. I find this pink, staircase-like object in front of us very interesting. It’s moving me. I like the object and the colors, but you can tell it was difficult to add paint to it, which makes me nervous, because I imagine the act of painting it as difficult and frustrating. At the same time it intrigues me, because all the lines are drawn by hand which stands in contrast to the geometric, edged shape. That fascinates me.

CH: I can show you paintings from a year ago, where everything was drawn with a ruler and I do that a lot. I decided that I’m free to do whatever I want.

Just because my lines are straight here, doesn’t mean they have to be over there. Of course I have role models, but I can also break with that and just be myself. That’s the goal.

There’s this cliche of artistic genius. And when I’m imagining two artists working together, doesn’t that mean you have to overcome your own ego? Did you two work well together?

CH: So far everything works great. You always have to be open, otherwise there’s no point in working together. I thought a lot about ego and of course I have one. That’s a work in progress for me and I’m trying to be as open as possible. Art has many faces and a lot of legitimacy. Differences are good. Otherwise everyone would do the same shit. I enjoy getting enchanted by other artists' works and that’s the opportunity now with Moni. I’m a big fan.There have been artists I exhibited with in the past that didn’t make me feel like that. So I’m happy things are the way they are now and I’m looking forward to a great exhibition and opening night.

Thank you for the conversation.

Interview: Hilka Dirks
Photos: Robyn Steffen